I am from NY and live in Italy for the past 28 years. Coming from NY in the late 90's (years btw when NY was goooood), the small, Italian city I moved to felt like paradise. I didn't speak a word of Italian (unless pizza, nutella and ciao count) and life was slow. Cars were old and small and everything looked and smelled romantic. Life was better then (but everywhere else too and any small city or town could have given me the same feels) but then again, without knowing the language, life always feels like a holiday. You cannot hear the people bitching about the politics or their cappuccino having too little foam (although I believe even the cappucinos were better back then). Life in Italy has changed. It is not Under The Tuscan Sun or even the Eat in Eat, Pray, and Love. It has lots of problems like most places. People are stressed. People are in debt. The systems needs a new system, from education to healthcare to highway construction to immigration. And there are beautiful things. Like most places. Like most places (even the states) you live better in Nature than city, in small villages better than big metropolitans. Small means slower, simpler, nicer people who will take the time for you. Big means fast, complex, people will not look you in the eyes. They have no time for you. Not evrn the healthcare workers or teachers. They may push into you or grunt if you try to get in the way of their schedule.
Is Europe better, is Italy better? I would say no. I return to what my answer for almost anything is - it depends on us. No move will fix you, if you don’t fix what is not healthy within you. If you aren't willing to change, nothing else will. In the beginning, there may be the love affair and ease. But choosing home is like choosing a mate. It is all smiles and roses and long lingering kisses at first. Perfection. Until it isn't anymore. You learn the language. You learn the real story. The newness wears off. Loving life anywhere (or with anyone) takes work. If you aren't gonna do it, stay where you are or get ready to move again when the cobblestone begins to feel wobbly and uncomfortable under your feet and your inner view of the romantic place you chose changes because you realize that life is still life. Great, terrible, everything in between. At least this is what I believe. This is my experience.
I find these debates about living in Europe fascinating, especially because Europe is often seen as the place where foreigners’ dreams should come true. I can share my perspective as a European who has been moving around this continent for quite some time.
I left Italy years ago because, like many of us, I couldn’t find real professional opportunities there. I was also tired of what we can call complexity.
Then I moved to Spain, where I truly enjoyed a lifestyle similar to Italy but coupled with a kind of simplicity — BUT I ran into the same work-related problems I’d faced in Italy.
The Netherlands was wonderful for work and for the simplicity of daily life, but I missed the warmth of human connection.
In the end, I chose to settle in France because, FOR ME AND NOW, it’s a healthy compromise: work opportunities, ACCEPTABLE complexity, and a good level of human connection.
Of course, I still miss the Italian lifestyle — and I even miss the daily complexity that create a certain solidarity I've never found elsewhere.
But during my wandering, I’ve learned that nothing is purely black or white. You have to choose the shades you’re willing to live with at that moment.
No country is perfect, and no place has magic air that solves all problems. Enjoy the journey!
It sounds like we are all actually singing the same song here. There's good and bad in everything. And you certainly have more experience with living in Europe than most, Emanuela!
My family emigrated from to the United States from Europe (Belgium and France) in the early 80’s. I was 11. You couldn’t pay me to go back to Europe to live. Don’t get me wrong, I love the people, I have cousins there who are absolutely wonderful and I love to visit. My French is close to perfect, so it is not a language issue, rather, to me, Europe feels stultifying, filled with the things one cannot do. I have gotten used to the wide open space of country life in America, air conditioning, comfortable vehicles, large kitchens, and the ability to live out my dreams without dealing with the Sisyphean bureaucracy that characterizes much of European affairs. I like the American work ethic that allowed my husband and I to build a good life, I like the patriotism and the flags, and my father, whose family survived the Nazi occupation, would have been so proud to see his grandsons in the uniform of the military that liberated his country. I am not trying to “yuck the yum” of people who love the European lifestyle, but I know that my family and my children are better off for my parents’ courageous decision to move here.
FWIW, for anyone looking for a slower pace of life, but can’t afford the move to Europe, there are a lot of lovely small towns in America that can give you that.
These are such good points, Fran. You definitely paint a different picture of Europe than what's in a lot of those articles! It all rings true also. It's the same place through a different lens, and that's the point, isn't it?
Exactly. I really think that people ought to be able to live in the place where they are most comfortable, but that doesn’t give them the right to dunk on other places as inferior just because they are different. The flip side of that is that, when you move to a new country, something that I have done 4 times, it is incumbent upon you to learn the rules, to be a good guest, to learn the language and acclimate to the culture, to contribute to their communities and their economy. The only reason to hang on to your own culture is if you plan to someday go back home. Otherwise, you adapt and assimilate. It’s the right and fair thing to do to your hosts.
(In Belgium, we celebrated Saint Nicholas Day on December 6, in France and the US, it was Christmas on December 25th, Mardi Gras in Europe, Halloween and Thanksgiving in the US.. each time, we celebrated what the culture around us celebrated, ate their food, spoke their language. Anything else is neo-colonialism)
I agree that it's so important to get involved with the local culture, however I will say that even if you don't plan on going back to your home country, it can be comforting to weave elements of your birth culture into your life abroad. It's all about balance!
I agree about finding that balance. I can't stand French popular music, plus I'm stuck in the 70s of my youth, so that's what I listen to. I love watching American TV. We speak English at home. I can't last 20 minutes on a French breakfast. But I love shopping for food 4 or 5 times a week, living with less in a smaller space, being challenged to figure out how things work, composting and walking a lot.
This piece absolutely hits the nail on the head. It really shows that the right move/change for one, may not be for another.
As a recent transplant to Spain, we moved knowing it wouldn’t fix all our problems AND that we’d likely have new problems that we hadn’t thought of yet. But as one person writes about, the change of pace and lifestyle are HUGE. The grind of working multiple jobs just to keep backsliding was slowly killing us.
There is a lot of privilege in being able to make this move and also, a lot we sacrificed to be able to do it.
It’s another example of many truths existing at once. Beautifully written piece and so relatable to many right now. 💕
Hey Kandi! Thanks for your kind words. Neat that you've just moved to Spain — I'm heading there too, soon! Whereabouts have you guys made your home? We are moving to Valencia. Very excited. I've visited the city several times, and I find the quality of life there to be incredible.
I'm British, so I have a slightly different perspective. Firstly, I think about each European country separately; although distances are short, especially compared to the States, cultural differences are huge. I still feel European, although politically the UK is now separate. I've lived in 5 countries in Europe and 4 in Asia. I know from experience that we are always the same person wherever we go. But, I believe that travel and living abroad gives us opportunities to develop and gain perspectives and greater understanding of the world and our place in it. New ways of doing things. Alternatives. We see culture for what it is - a set of norms - which we don't always have to accept.
Hey Lisa, wow you've definitely been around, and appreciate your seasoned perspective! I agree with you that living abroad expands you so much. Now I'm getting curious about the impact moving abroad has on the local communities in question. Thanks for your comment!
Yes, it's a topic I have touched on in my newsletter, too. We all have an impact on each other and our environment. Nice to join this conversation, Kaila!
Reading the article and the replies made me think that the elephant in the room is actually the States. Why are so many people leaving or dreaming about leaving? How about the grief of not only leaving relatives and friends behind but a country you were taught to believe was “the greatest!”, the “best” country in the wjole wide world. You were told millions stood in line to enter your country and tens of millions dreamt of going there. Now there are hundreds of thousands leaving the States, for individually different reasons. It must be extremely painful to realize how deeply you disillusioned you are, how you feel betrayed and there is not “one” reason or person to blame. Leaving is not always voluntarily. It is more like there was something just one straw too much.
Also, once an expat, always an expat. Even if you go back, it will be again a foreign country.
You're so right, Agatha. There is a huge amount of grief that I'm seeing from my American friends on Substack. There was a slew of posts on the 4th of July from disillusioned Americans who didn't feel right celebrating; some even dressed in black and spent the day in mourning. I'm Canadian, and it's so hard for me to watch the country we were so close allies with fall in such a dramatic fashion. I can only imagine what it must be like to be an actual citizen.
We retired and moved to Cuenca, Ecuador, 5 1/2 years ago. We couldn’t imagine what we were going to do with ourselves without work, except extend healthy living into the future as far as possible, and travel like we had never been able to before. So we decided to surround ourselves with a completely different culture, and not move in and burden our adult children, or directly influence their lives (which they very much appreciate!). Turns out Cuenca is not “perfect”, but it does check off many of our boxes. We have obtained our permanent visas, which was an overarching goal. And we have had several years (after the pandemic of slow travel (we are usually away 1-2 months at a time so that we can enjoy ourselves, we travel during the spring or fall, and we’ve really become good at it! Plus we have established a home base with a supportive community of friends, both expats and locals, professional assistance, language classes, cultural activities, healthcare services, and enough buy in that we are appreciated by the community. But we have learned to adjust expectations and slow our pace to match the culture here, which is much more enriching than annoying. When we return to the U.S. we understand, but it is much different than where we are.
Good for you guys, Marshall. And still close enough that it's not too treacherous of a journey home! I'm sure your adult children appreciate that, too! Do they come out to visit?
They have each been here to visit once, and our daughter travels with us when she can. Our trip back to the states in May was the first since we moved here, but now we are free to come and go for as long and as often as we choose.
This article compiles the thoughts behind all of the other articles trying to explain the “I’m moving to Europe to be the NEW ME” philosophy and grinds it down to its essence. Thank you so much!! I’m thinking about my move to France and how to express what I’ve learned.. I’ll get it onto Substack soon.
Thank you for this summary and showing all sides of the debate. We are privileged enough to be able to spend time in Portugal (although I wish we could spend even more time there) and my life is just slower when I am there.
I often think, how do I create the same when I am in Seattle? It’s more challenging since Europeans tend to live slower naturally where in the US it is hurry up, work more and then try and buy the things to make your life easier. An easy example, in the small village where we stay in Portugal, there is not a cup of coffee to go available. If you want coffee or tea, you sit, you wait for them to deliver it to you and likely there is a pastel de nata or a slice of fresh baked cake as well.
Also, as an aside, the price of the coffee with the small pastry is about 2 euros. This would cost easily $14 in Seattle.
You can make your assumptions about me and what I know about the Portuguese economy all you want from your high and mighty place. Ever thought of approaching from curiosity instead of condescension?
I think that’s my point. We’re so busy making money in the US to pay for more things and those things cost even more. I appreciate the limited economy in Portugal, but the people in the small village where I stay seem more connected and take time for the smaller things in life.
Oh wow. It’s worse than i thought . “ poor people love being poor. Unlike most Americans, I can afford to go to Portugal every year. But gosh, I wish I were poor like the European so that I could appreciate the simple things in life. Thank God for their cheap pastries.”
These countries have had stagnating economies over the past nearly 20 years.
I don’t know if you’ve read the book the Heart of Darkness, but I strongly recommend it.
Basically, it’s about these colonial officers they go to Africa. Your comments almost sound lifted straight from that book.
Living in Australia for 4 months really changed how my husband and I view our ideal life. It made us realize the way we’d been slogging through our existence in rural Pennsylvania—especially me, because he still had connection through the university where he’s a professor, and I’ve been quite isolated in our rural home. We moved there because I had horses and we wanted the whole homestead experience with chickens and a huge garden and fruit trees. But we’re in our 60s now, I don’t have horses or chickens anymore, and we’re sick and tired of driving 15 miles every time we need groceries. In Hobart we didn’t have a car and we walked everywhere, with an awesome grocery store 10 minutes away. We didn’t have a lot of stuff with us—only what 2 suitcases contained, and we discovered that 2 people do not require 21 mugs. We went to different ethnic restaurants every week instead of the only restaurant we like within 10 miles of our home here. I went to museums and galleries and bookstores just about every day. We don’t have any of that here. So for us, living in Australia crystallized the type of life we want. It wouldn’t have to be there (though we’d be thrilled if it could be!—10 minutes to a beautiful beach is awesome!) but we know it isn’t here.
We would love to relocate to Australia—specifically Hobart, Tasmania, since we loved it so much. But it’s not that easy to go to Australia as a retiree. My husband has been checking into it and he said it’s possible to get a 4 year visa and then extend it, “and then we die”🤣 He has a rather dark sense of humor! I think there’s a possibility that the university there might offer him something—he says that because he’s at the end of his career they won’t—but he’s also at the top of his field, and many countries are looking to benefit from the brain drain happening in the US. So who knows?
Absolutely worth a shot! Fingers crossed for you guys. I wrote a lot about Hobart when my marketing company was hired by a company there to promote it. It sounds incredible!
For us, we always wanted the experience of living in another country. We knew it wouldn’t be an extended vacation, but a new and yet utterly “real life” with all its guts and glory. In my mind, it comes down to intention and I have learned that I’m not seeking happiness, I’m looking for contentment.
If you’re running away to escape, you’ll soon need to keep going because your problems will have slipped into your suitcase. If you’re consciously choosing to build something new, you will break down barriers you never knew existed as you begin to see yourself and the world around you in a new way.
It isn’t about expecting everything to be perfect when you get there, it’s about deciding to make the best of it as it unfolds. That works as a philosophy no matter where you are, so there’s no need to move across the world unless that’s the part you want to do! We spent a year and a half preparing for the journey, consciously adapting our way of life long before we left. Actually living in The Hague is not at all like visiting Amsterdam…even if there is a red light districts here too.
Absolutely! It hasn’t been easy, nor a fairy tale of happily ever after the moment we landed in Europe. But we are getting to experience a dream in real time and wide awake! It’s magical, even with a heaping dose of reality in the mix.
Wow Kaila, you explored this topic so deftly, exploring the full scope of nuances in an objective manner that deserves major kudos! I'm impressed and absolutely love how you brought these threads together. You're right that this discourse has delivered us quite the spectrum of diverse perspectives, that at their core do exactly what you said, prompt meaningful and necessary reflections. I wholeheartedly agree, it was never about nor is it about Europe. The perspectives I share aren't to say "Spain is the answer", it's to say that place and life experiences matter and we can be intentional about those. I know plenty of people who love their lives in their home countries, US included. Noticing joy, as Pia observed, is the guidepost, but our environments can certainly either facilitate that or be a catalyst for internalizing the practice so that you can create it anywhere you go.
Yes so true, Sam! I'm starting to realise that you'll never be comfortable anywhere if you're not comfortable in your own body. But how you feel in your own body can be influenced by your surroundings! So it's all a big circle really.
Haha the idea that "Italy exists to fix you"... people who say that have clearly never lived there. Everyone in Italy complains about Italy ALL THE TIME and many Italians dream of moving away.
As someone who grew up in Sweden, I'd also like to share a very unpopular opinion: Scandinavian countries are not utopia! They have their own set of problems, including the weather which is definitely not fit for human beings.
I am from NY and live in Italy for the past 28 years. Coming from NY in the late 90's (years btw when NY was goooood), the small, Italian city I moved to felt like paradise. I didn't speak a word of Italian (unless pizza, nutella and ciao count) and life was slow. Cars were old and small and everything looked and smelled romantic. Life was better then (but everywhere else too and any small city or town could have given me the same feels) but then again, without knowing the language, life always feels like a holiday. You cannot hear the people bitching about the politics or their cappuccino having too little foam (although I believe even the cappucinos were better back then). Life in Italy has changed. It is not Under The Tuscan Sun or even the Eat in Eat, Pray, and Love. It has lots of problems like most places. People are stressed. People are in debt. The systems needs a new system, from education to healthcare to highway construction to immigration. And there are beautiful things. Like most places. Like most places (even the states) you live better in Nature than city, in small villages better than big metropolitans. Small means slower, simpler, nicer people who will take the time for you. Big means fast, complex, people will not look you in the eyes. They have no time for you. Not evrn the healthcare workers or teachers. They may push into you or grunt if you try to get in the way of their schedule.
Is Europe better, is Italy better? I would say no. I return to what my answer for almost anything is - it depends on us. No move will fix you, if you don’t fix what is not healthy within you. If you aren't willing to change, nothing else will. In the beginning, there may be the love affair and ease. But choosing home is like choosing a mate. It is all smiles and roses and long lingering kisses at first. Perfection. Until it isn't anymore. You learn the language. You learn the real story. The newness wears off. Loving life anywhere (or with anyone) takes work. If you aren't gonna do it, stay where you are or get ready to move again when the cobblestone begins to feel wobbly and uncomfortable under your feet and your inner view of the romantic place you chose changes because you realize that life is still life. Great, terrible, everything in between. At least this is what I believe. This is my experience.
Oh mannnn what I would give to have experienced NY and the Italian village life in the 90s!
Such beautiful insights babe, from someone who can truly speak on this topic.
I find these debates about living in Europe fascinating, especially because Europe is often seen as the place where foreigners’ dreams should come true. I can share my perspective as a European who has been moving around this continent for quite some time.
I left Italy years ago because, like many of us, I couldn’t find real professional opportunities there. I was also tired of what we can call complexity.
Then I moved to Spain, where I truly enjoyed a lifestyle similar to Italy but coupled with a kind of simplicity — BUT I ran into the same work-related problems I’d faced in Italy.
The Netherlands was wonderful for work and for the simplicity of daily life, but I missed the warmth of human connection.
In the end, I chose to settle in France because, FOR ME AND NOW, it’s a healthy compromise: work opportunities, ACCEPTABLE complexity, and a good level of human connection.
Of course, I still miss the Italian lifestyle — and I even miss the daily complexity that create a certain solidarity I've never found elsewhere.
But during my wandering, I’ve learned that nothing is purely black or white. You have to choose the shades you’re willing to live with at that moment.
No country is perfect, and no place has magic air that solves all problems. Enjoy the journey!
It sounds like we are all actually singing the same song here. There's good and bad in everything. And you certainly have more experience with living in Europe than most, Emanuela!
My family emigrated from to the United States from Europe (Belgium and France) in the early 80’s. I was 11. You couldn’t pay me to go back to Europe to live. Don’t get me wrong, I love the people, I have cousins there who are absolutely wonderful and I love to visit. My French is close to perfect, so it is not a language issue, rather, to me, Europe feels stultifying, filled with the things one cannot do. I have gotten used to the wide open space of country life in America, air conditioning, comfortable vehicles, large kitchens, and the ability to live out my dreams without dealing with the Sisyphean bureaucracy that characterizes much of European affairs. I like the American work ethic that allowed my husband and I to build a good life, I like the patriotism and the flags, and my father, whose family survived the Nazi occupation, would have been so proud to see his grandsons in the uniform of the military that liberated his country. I am not trying to “yuck the yum” of people who love the European lifestyle, but I know that my family and my children are better off for my parents’ courageous decision to move here.
FWIW, for anyone looking for a slower pace of life, but can’t afford the move to Europe, there are a lot of lovely small towns in America that can give you that.
These are such good points, Fran. You definitely paint a different picture of Europe than what's in a lot of those articles! It all rings true also. It's the same place through a different lens, and that's the point, isn't it?
Exactly. I really think that people ought to be able to live in the place where they are most comfortable, but that doesn’t give them the right to dunk on other places as inferior just because they are different. The flip side of that is that, when you move to a new country, something that I have done 4 times, it is incumbent upon you to learn the rules, to be a good guest, to learn the language and acclimate to the culture, to contribute to their communities and their economy. The only reason to hang on to your own culture is if you plan to someday go back home. Otherwise, you adapt and assimilate. It’s the right and fair thing to do to your hosts.
(In Belgium, we celebrated Saint Nicholas Day on December 6, in France and the US, it was Christmas on December 25th, Mardi Gras in Europe, Halloween and Thanksgiving in the US.. each time, we celebrated what the culture around us celebrated, ate their food, spoke their language. Anything else is neo-colonialism)
I agree that it's so important to get involved with the local culture, however I will say that even if you don't plan on going back to your home country, it can be comforting to weave elements of your birth culture into your life abroad. It's all about balance!
I agree about finding that balance. I can't stand French popular music, plus I'm stuck in the 70s of my youth, so that's what I listen to. I love watching American TV. We speak English at home. I can't last 20 minutes on a French breakfast. But I love shopping for food 4 or 5 times a week, living with less in a smaller space, being challenged to figure out how things work, composting and walking a lot.
Now that's balance!
This piece absolutely hits the nail on the head. It really shows that the right move/change for one, may not be for another.
As a recent transplant to Spain, we moved knowing it wouldn’t fix all our problems AND that we’d likely have new problems that we hadn’t thought of yet. But as one person writes about, the change of pace and lifestyle are HUGE. The grind of working multiple jobs just to keep backsliding was slowly killing us.
There is a lot of privilege in being able to make this move and also, a lot we sacrificed to be able to do it.
It’s another example of many truths existing at once. Beautifully written piece and so relatable to many right now. 💕
Hey Kandi! Thanks for your kind words. Neat that you've just moved to Spain — I'm heading there too, soon! Whereabouts have you guys made your home? We are moving to Valencia. Very excited. I've visited the city several times, and I find the quality of life there to be incredible.
Awesome! We are in the north close to Girona. Looking forward to checking out the south a bit more as the temps cool!
I'm British, so I have a slightly different perspective. Firstly, I think about each European country separately; although distances are short, especially compared to the States, cultural differences are huge. I still feel European, although politically the UK is now separate. I've lived in 5 countries in Europe and 4 in Asia. I know from experience that we are always the same person wherever we go. But, I believe that travel and living abroad gives us opportunities to develop and gain perspectives and greater understanding of the world and our place in it. New ways of doing things. Alternatives. We see culture for what it is - a set of norms - which we don't always have to accept.
Hey Lisa, wow you've definitely been around, and appreciate your seasoned perspective! I agree with you that living abroad expands you so much. Now I'm getting curious about the impact moving abroad has on the local communities in question. Thanks for your comment!
Yes, it's a topic I have touched on in my newsletter, too. We all have an impact on each other and our environment. Nice to join this conversation, Kaila!
Reading the article and the replies made me think that the elephant in the room is actually the States. Why are so many people leaving or dreaming about leaving? How about the grief of not only leaving relatives and friends behind but a country you were taught to believe was “the greatest!”, the “best” country in the wjole wide world. You were told millions stood in line to enter your country and tens of millions dreamt of going there. Now there are hundreds of thousands leaving the States, for individually different reasons. It must be extremely painful to realize how deeply you disillusioned you are, how you feel betrayed and there is not “one” reason or person to blame. Leaving is not always voluntarily. It is more like there was something just one straw too much.
Also, once an expat, always an expat. Even if you go back, it will be again a foreign country.
I say this from experience.
You're so right, Agatha. There is a huge amount of grief that I'm seeing from my American friends on Substack. There was a slew of posts on the 4th of July from disillusioned Americans who didn't feel right celebrating; some even dressed in black and spent the day in mourning. I'm Canadian, and it's so hard for me to watch the country we were so close allies with fall in such a dramatic fashion. I can only imagine what it must be like to be an actual citizen.
We retired and moved to Cuenca, Ecuador, 5 1/2 years ago. We couldn’t imagine what we were going to do with ourselves without work, except extend healthy living into the future as far as possible, and travel like we had never been able to before. So we decided to surround ourselves with a completely different culture, and not move in and burden our adult children, or directly influence their lives (which they very much appreciate!). Turns out Cuenca is not “perfect”, but it does check off many of our boxes. We have obtained our permanent visas, which was an overarching goal. And we have had several years (after the pandemic of slow travel (we are usually away 1-2 months at a time so that we can enjoy ourselves, we travel during the spring or fall, and we’ve really become good at it! Plus we have established a home base with a supportive community of friends, both expats and locals, professional assistance, language classes, cultural activities, healthcare services, and enough buy in that we are appreciated by the community. But we have learned to adjust expectations and slow our pace to match the culture here, which is much more enriching than annoying. When we return to the U.S. we understand, but it is much different than where we are.
Good for you guys, Marshall. And still close enough that it's not too treacherous of a journey home! I'm sure your adult children appreciate that, too! Do they come out to visit?
They have each been here to visit once, and our daughter travels with us when she can. Our trip back to the states in May was the first since we moved here, but now we are free to come and go for as long and as often as we choose.
Hi Kaila your post inspired me to write my own take if you'd care to read it? https://substack.com/@janinevicicampbell/note/c-134857593?r=ez84n&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
I certainly would, thanks for joining the conversation! Looking forward to reading!
This article compiles the thoughts behind all of the other articles trying to explain the “I’m moving to Europe to be the NEW ME” philosophy and grinds it down to its essence. Thank you so much!! I’m thinking about my move to France and how to express what I’ve learned.. I’ll get it onto Substack soon.
It was fun to put together. Thanks for your kind words Susan!
Thank you for this summary and showing all sides of the debate. We are privileged enough to be able to spend time in Portugal (although I wish we could spend even more time there) and my life is just slower when I am there.
I often think, how do I create the same when I am in Seattle? It’s more challenging since Europeans tend to live slower naturally where in the US it is hurry up, work more and then try and buy the things to make your life easier. An easy example, in the small village where we stay in Portugal, there is not a cup of coffee to go available. If you want coffee or tea, you sit, you wait for them to deliver it to you and likely there is a pastel de nata or a slice of fresh baked cake as well.
Also, as an aside, the price of the coffee with the small pastry is about 2 euros. This would cost easily $14 in Seattle.
Oh I love that. No take away coffee. That feels so nice to imagine.
That's a great question to ask yourself, how you can replicate that feeling in your hometown.
You can make your assumptions about me and what I know about the Portuguese economy all you want from your high and mighty place. Ever thought of approaching from curiosity instead of condescension?
Enlighten us, Kurtz, about the benefits of poverty amongst these noble savages.
The price of coffee and pastries is lower in Portugal because *their wages are lower.* It is, overall, a smaller economy.
A lot of Portuguese move to France seeking jobs and opportunity .
I think that’s my point. We’re so busy making money in the US to pay for more things and those things cost even more. I appreciate the limited economy in Portugal, but the people in the small village where I stay seem more connected and take time for the smaller things in life.
Oh wow. It’s worse than i thought . “ poor people love being poor. Unlike most Americans, I can afford to go to Portugal every year. But gosh, I wish I were poor like the European so that I could appreciate the simple things in life. Thank God for their cheap pastries.”
These countries have had stagnating economies over the past nearly 20 years.
I don’t know if you’ve read the book the Heart of Darkness, but I strongly recommend it.
Basically, it’s about these colonial officers they go to Africa. Your comments almost sound lifted straight from that book.
Living in Australia for 4 months really changed how my husband and I view our ideal life. It made us realize the way we’d been slogging through our existence in rural Pennsylvania—especially me, because he still had connection through the university where he’s a professor, and I’ve been quite isolated in our rural home. We moved there because I had horses and we wanted the whole homestead experience with chickens and a huge garden and fruit trees. But we’re in our 60s now, I don’t have horses or chickens anymore, and we’re sick and tired of driving 15 miles every time we need groceries. In Hobart we didn’t have a car and we walked everywhere, with an awesome grocery store 10 minutes away. We didn’t have a lot of stuff with us—only what 2 suitcases contained, and we discovered that 2 people do not require 21 mugs. We went to different ethnic restaurants every week instead of the only restaurant we like within 10 miles of our home here. I went to museums and galleries and bookstores just about every day. We don’t have any of that here. So for us, living in Australia crystallized the type of life we want. It wouldn’t have to be there (though we’d be thrilled if it could be!—10 minutes to a beautiful beach is awesome!) but we know it isn’t here.
It's so great that you had that experience Martha, so that you already know what you're looking for.
Sounds like you're ready to commit to somewhere abroad! Do you know where yet?
We would love to relocate to Australia—specifically Hobart, Tasmania, since we loved it so much. But it’s not that easy to go to Australia as a retiree. My husband has been checking into it and he said it’s possible to get a 4 year visa and then extend it, “and then we die”🤣 He has a rather dark sense of humor! I think there’s a possibility that the university there might offer him something—he says that because he’s at the end of his career they won’t—but he’s also at the top of his field, and many countries are looking to benefit from the brain drain happening in the US. So who knows?
Absolutely worth a shot! Fingers crossed for you guys. I wrote a lot about Hobart when my marketing company was hired by a company there to promote it. It sounds incredible!
For us, we always wanted the experience of living in another country. We knew it wouldn’t be an extended vacation, but a new and yet utterly “real life” with all its guts and glory. In my mind, it comes down to intention and I have learned that I’m not seeking happiness, I’m looking for contentment.
If you’re running away to escape, you’ll soon need to keep going because your problems will have slipped into your suitcase. If you’re consciously choosing to build something new, you will break down barriers you never knew existed as you begin to see yourself and the world around you in a new way.
So agree with this, Gillian. Intention and expectation, I think. And I think the more of the former you do, the better you will settle.
It isn’t about expecting everything to be perfect when you get there, it’s about deciding to make the best of it as it unfolds. That works as a philosophy no matter where you are, so there’s no need to move across the world unless that’s the part you want to do! We spent a year and a half preparing for the journey, consciously adapting our way of life long before we left. Actually living in The Hague is not at all like visiting Amsterdam…even if there is a red light districts here too.
Yes! And it seems like because you've been so intentional about your move that it's going pretty well, no!?
Absolutely! It hasn’t been easy, nor a fairy tale of happily ever after the moment we landed in Europe. But we are getting to experience a dream in real time and wide awake! It’s magical, even with a heaping dose of reality in the mix.
Love it!
Nice, this reads like a lit review of one of the most irritating Substack niches: the moving to Europe market. Great job.
Haha I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!?
Wow Kaila, you explored this topic so deftly, exploring the full scope of nuances in an objective manner that deserves major kudos! I'm impressed and absolutely love how you brought these threads together. You're right that this discourse has delivered us quite the spectrum of diverse perspectives, that at their core do exactly what you said, prompt meaningful and necessary reflections. I wholeheartedly agree, it was never about nor is it about Europe. The perspectives I share aren't to say "Spain is the answer", it's to say that place and life experiences matter and we can be intentional about those. I know plenty of people who love their lives in their home countries, US included. Noticing joy, as Pia observed, is the guidepost, but our environments can certainly either facilitate that or be a catalyst for internalizing the practice so that you can create it anywhere you go.
Yes so true, Sam! I'm starting to realise that you'll never be comfortable anywhere if you're not comfortable in your own body. But how you feel in your own body can be influenced by your surroundings! So it's all a big circle really.
Haha the idea that "Italy exists to fix you"... people who say that have clearly never lived there. Everyone in Italy complains about Italy ALL THE TIME and many Italians dream of moving away.
As someone who grew up in Sweden, I'd also like to share a very unpopular opinion: Scandinavian countries are not utopia! They have their own set of problems, including the weather which is definitely not fit for human beings.
Yes it's like that in a lot of places in Asia too. Like the Philippines is a paradise, but it has one of the largest diasporas in the world.
After living in Italy for nearly 13 years, and following this debate closely, I think it all comes down to The Onion Test… https://open.substack.com/pub/itchworld/p/do-you-really-want-to-live-in-italy?r=f2hg7&utm_medium=ios
Oooo I've saved this one to read later!